Paul Noble
Yesterday at 07:09 ·
It amazes me why some attack what they call hyper grace. It's as if they don't want God to be that good; they have to put some sort of boundary on it - because then it makes them comfortable. They call it cheap grace or greasy grace but in fact what they are offering is exactly that! How great the fathers love for us, how vast beyond all measure. The prodigal son had a script of repentance worked out with a caveat of works - make me as a hired servant. When he encountered the fathers love though, it was completely forgotten!
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Russell Chadwick
Russell Chadwick Well said, Paul.
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 09:44
Chris Welch
Chris Welch There's just one more sticking point left.!!!
And it is the one that killed Jesus.
What's that Chris?
Well Jesus was a bit different in timing, but in no other way.
Jesus was God in the flesh because God plonked Jesus , a fully conceived egg, into Mary's womb by the Overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.
He couldn't legally do that with us.
So Jesus came as the last Adam, had to fully do the growing thing, Adam didn't, then in dying, as a perfect Lamb....
He did a "switch" thing at spirit level.
This is broken down for us in two ways in the Tabernacle and it took God a lot of headscratching to get this right.
You see, to illustrate two operations He had to use two goats.
One got burnt. One was a scapegoat.
But this was because you couldn't half kill one goat, and expect it to crawl into the wilderness.
Jesus DID BOTH THINGS for us in the Spirit. But you can do these things in the Spirit!!!!!
So the equivalent of the scapegoat bit in the wilderness, was Jesus actually being sent away with our "stuff" to Hades.
He Himself was perfect. So He deposited our foul spirit.....which includes everybody that ever was contaminated with it, and God would not allow Him to suffer decay, and raised His Perfect Son up.
So here is the clever bit.
Having ditched all our wrong attachment to the Satan spirit,
the Holy Spirit RAISED US ALL IN HIM.
Our lives, spiritually....but no less really...
( I mean carnal people think in terms of spirit being fuzzy. Jesus hammered that one by getting Thomas to feel His hands, and by making a fish barbecue beside Galilee....nothing fuzzy about that!!!!)
The BORN AGAIN WORD
The socalled HYPERGRACE WORD
is that YOU MR OR MRS HUMAN
GOT SWITCHED
AT YOUR SPIRIT CENTRE ....
It is now nolonger you that live
but Christ -you.......your spirit DNA is a fusion....but spirit is who you really are....
clothed in a soul and a body.
THIS THEN IS THE LAST STICKING POINT ON EARTH....
THIS IS WHY JESUS MARKETING WAS SO BAD ON THE DAY OF RESURRECTION....
HE COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT HIS OWN RESURRECTION
GODS CAN DO THIS TYPE OF STUFF FOR BREAKFAST
The point is MR
The point is Mrs
YOU ARE NOW GOD IN THE FLESH, IF YOU BELIEVE THE MESSAGE OF THE SWITCH ON THE CROSS....
WE ARE THE DEMONSTRATION OF WHAT JESUS CAME TO DO, TO GIVE US INDESTRUCTIBLE LIFE, AND LIFT US OUT OF DEATH.
Be ye lifted up ye Ancient Doors
Let the King of Glory come in.
Steve Harvey stand up comedian ends his spot suddenly with the words....
If I had to announce Jesus....it'd be something like this.
Actually I posted this on Facebook about a year ago, but Jon Sidnell has just put it up on his blog. I'm posting it here, because of the furore I just caused on Facebook with these words: Chris Welch Everyone's seen the evangelical/charismatic bumper sticker "Don't follow me, follow Christ".While this crap might work in the States it frickin doesn't in the UK. How good that the real gospel is about The Way.It's safe to follow people in The Way
Friday at 19:15 via BlackBerry · Friends only ·LikeUnlike · .
Below, for those interested is the long ensuing conversation. But I'm posting this video on here to illustrate both sides of the coin. This video made me cry again. Why? Because this is not in church. This is a "freewill offering" done by a standup comedian of all people in a secular show surrounded by many unbelievers and some believers. He didn't need to do it. Professionally, it may have been suicide...but I think not. And the reaction of the audience, and him throwing the mike down just has me bawling again.
On the other hand Steve is exemplifying what the American Christian knows , then stopping short.......................
You see, our Jesus did all these things. You may have noticed He even played down the resurrection. It was about as muted as He could manage, bearing in mind how many angels were jumping down up and down in heaven, and how the Father was leaping around....but here on earth, Jesus got it down to a couple of angels, a welcoming committee of about 2, and one of those mistaking him for the gardner.
YOU SEE SAINTS...His resurrection wasn't really the point. And this is what I was meaning about this weak and feeble "Don't follow me (implication: I'm as lost as the rest of America) follow Christ".
NO....NO.....NO..... Jesus's point is this, caught by revelation in St Paul's Ephesians letter
chapter 3 verses 8 to 10.
8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given,
to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery
which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.
So this is the bit Steve missed and most Americans miss, because their gospel doesn't work.
It works on Sundays. People turn round their lives a bit. They know more about the Bible.Many like Bill Johnson's church in Redding have pressed through into an anointing for healing and supernaturally imparting blessing to folk. But once out the door.....hmmmm. Yes, they pray for people on the street, and God really steps in. But without a third level understanding of "As He is , so are we in the world", your Christianity just cannot really work.
But you know saints, the point of the resurrection of Christ is that the Old Adam we were tied into is now dead. Utterly utterly dead. Have you seen an 18 classification film of out and out violence? You know, when the characters have destruction written right across merciless faces.
Well Jesus set His face in a similar fashion in the Garden. He'd made His announcement the day before in the Upper Room. Notice faith speaks FIRST. "Now is the ruler of this world cast down". The first Adam, the appended powers and principalities went down into the grave in the dead Body of Jesus. He brutally brutally murdered them in His own Body. Worse than the worst 18 film carnage you ever saw. Not one bit of remorse and mercy showing in Jesus eyes. He smashed them all to pieces and left them there in hell to rot!!!
Then the Holy Spirit breathed life back into His mortal body, this time to move all of His imprisoned creation back into the quarters they were designed for. He caught us up together with Him in the heavenly places. We are not in the first Adam. We are in Christ.
But when Jesus was raised, He had a problem. How to play down the resurrection just long enough for the FINAL DENOUEMENT of ALL TIME. You see if His own resurrection had been overplayed, and frankly , it could have been....if even His birth got a whole angelic orchestra and choir......but you see this would have wrecked the final ACT of the play. This would be like Miss Marple telling you who the murderer was half way through, and wrecking the end of the programme.
THE POINT IS:
Jesus resurrection is SO REAL that it is going to be demonstrated in and through the Body of Christ NOW, this side of the second coming, through the BODY of CHRIST throughout the Earth. And indeed, individuals are the manifestation,the demonstration of this hidden wisdom of God even now, and ever since Pentecost.
It's just that in the same way 3000 of us were gobsmacked in Friends Meeting House in the Fountain Trust meeting in 1972 when we all started singing in tongues together, and wave upon wave of angelic goosebump swept left then right over our gathering.....when, hardly any of us knew singing in tongues existed, let alone how to do it....but here was heaven descending upon us to teach us.
Well , this is what I mean, when corporately, as we get caught up in the resurrection of Christ, catching the immensity of what has already been accomplished, we will in the same way find ourselves suddenly well out of our depth, doing things we had no idea were possible in a gravity ruled earth, and in a timebound earth. I already feel that I've been in some gobsmacking things in my time. Fountain Trust. The London House Church meetings. Darmstadt with Mother Basilea Schlink and her fruit trees and giant goldfish. The Dales Bible weeks with the angelic appearances, and experiences of spiritual warfare. The Presence of God in Emsworth Church. The Presence of God regularly and tangibly felt here in Havant Church, and so many jawdropping answers to prayer. But nobody, nobody can begin to imagine what power, what forcefield of heaven will be on a worldwide Body caught up with all three levels of understanding the revelation of Jesus Christ IN US , now, this side of heaven, demonstrating to principalities and powers,
that whereas they, IN THE MIDST of light, glory, praise, and heaven's throne, rose up to declare their own independence and entry into selfish darkness....
The Bride
standing by Night (Psalm 134) in the Holy place of God
Here on earth
making the choice
for the ONE TRUE KING
whose right it is to Bring all things into Himself
and Present them to the Father.
Now that gets an ovation !!!!!! Now do you understand my heart Connie Rockwell Cooke,having written me off as just another sectarian crackpot?
How close to madness is the True gospel. It is just too glorious for most Americans.
---------------------------
Connie Rockwell-Cooke In the U.S. there is a cult called The Way. I hope that's not what you are referring to. I would rather the bumper sticker stay the way it is and say "follow Christ". I don't know why you would have a problem with that if you are a true believer.
Friday at 19:21 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Carol Lucas Winkler Whhhhhaaaaat?????
Friday at 19:46 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch I tell you why it's cultish....we proclaim the Way , which is Christ in us as us. Don't follow me follow Christ is the kind of abstraction the diciples spent 3 years having surgically removed!!!
Saturday at 09:32 · LikeUnlike.Connie Rockwell-Cooke You believe a different gospel. I don't know what your game is but I don't have time for it. See ya. Saturday at 09:41 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The Way we preach is not us ofcourse,this is the very apostolic Zeus club we are removing ourselves from as did Paul in Acts.No we preach a Living Way which we model,which is Christ in us the Hope of glory.Do not take offense at the Truth.What on Earth would you have done when Jesus said Eat My flesh
Saturday at 10:15 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Paul Noble Hey Chris you've got my anointing for being misunderstood LoL - if we are "true believers" we are like Christ because he is in us I have his spiritual DNA - so actually if we are true disciples and following Jesus - ie we are in the way a...long with hundreds of other believers. Its ok for others to follow us ( Paul said follow me ) he wasn't being proud he just knew who he was in Christ. If I am truly discipling others they will be following us not in a cultish fashion but because they see beyond us because they see Christ in us.See more
Saturday at 11:03 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Chris Welch Imagine will you the first time a man widely perceived as a Rabbi looks you in the eye and says Eat my flesh, and drink My blood. That's all you've got to go on plus the healings and miracles, which actually wouldn't be so different to look... at than a Benny Hinn meeting or Morris Cerullo meeting.You've got no resurrection at this point, just a very human looking man saying this, and "follow me"....and talking blasphemy about God being His Father.See more
Saturday at 14:05 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The furore we have just seen here, is exactly what Jesus experienced in John 6. This is exactly the reason the Spirit gets people to use different phraseologies and pictures...because we "have the name of being alive, but are not". We say w...e're Jews but are not. Traditional American orthodoxy says it is perfectly OK to say to people to follow Christ,but don't follow us. What does this produce? It produces a Catholicism which sits snugly alongside the Mafia in Italy, as they murder their next victim then go to mass confession on Saturday. Absolutely people should follow us, until they too have learned to live in the Way too. Enough of American crap. We here in the UK want the gospel that's in the Bible. The one that stirs up cities and centuries of empty religious mouthings.See more
Saturday at 14:05 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Just had this flash of revelation: If Jesus was driving a car , and you were following him in yours, then it would be fairly logical for me to follow you and we would arrive at the same destination! I wouldn't say don't follow me follow Jesus! Thats what the Christian WAY is - a motor - WAY LoL.
Saturday at 14:37 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Have you listened to my latest musical creation based on Psalm 84 - funny it talks in that Psalm about those who are on a Journey
Saturday at 14:39 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble http://www.envizu.co.uk/media/Psalms/Psalm%2084.mp3
Saturday at 14:39 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch While we were locked in the darkness of our minds...and this as Christians,we experienced a kind of Romans 1, tossing out judgements at each other according to our particular brand of reasoning. Then grace came and nervously at first we sta...rted crawling out of our tight little left-brain boxes and started to see that the gospel Has Us rather than the other way around. That the Way is Extremely obvious, with a Cross right in the centre of it, but with an umpire of peace in our heart, with a LIGHT that we walk and have fellowship in with all other believers, and with a surrounding universe thatSee more
Saturday at 15:01 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch loves righteousness and indeed is increaslingly set free "as the sons of God see more light on what are ALREADY are the riches they have NOW in Christ".It's not something locked up in a box as the exclusive preserve of a super breed of Christian. It's just Jesus taking us wherever we are and asking us,"Seeing you've made a mess of your natural and spiritul lives how abou Me coming in to live in you As you."
Saturday at 15:02 · LikeUnlike.Bonnie Morris Paul said.. "follow me as I follow Christ"
Saturday at 15:08 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Exactly!
Saturday at 15:09 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Chris. The real gospel is about Christ, and him crucified...but just like in the days after Jesus left, some thought it foolishness. If you want to follow, "The Way", why wouldn't you say to follow the way, who is Christ? Jesus said, "I am ...the way, the truth, and the life." It makes no sense for us to preach any other gospel...unless your way is an occult, you are a Universalist, or because you live in the Uk and people have been imprisoned for offending others with the preaching Christ and the cross. Brother....THE WAY is Christ. "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation."See more
Saturday at 16:49 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol, I think you are missing the point if you don't mind me saying so! As you say the way is Christ because no man can come to the Father but by him but the way was the terminology the first disciples used in Acts. It was at Antioch they ...were first called Christians. Chris's original point is that the religious statement don't follow me follow Christ is rubbish and it is! If you are following Jesus and I am following Jesus then we are heading in the same direction! Paul could say follow me as I follow Christ because he was a signpost to Christ and likewise if we are following Jesus we are like lights pointing people to the truth. People should see Christ in you.See more
Saturday at 17:56 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The worst thing about the American gospel is that it is precisely the halfbuilt tower Jesus warned the whole world against....the one that would invite the world to scoff and laugh at the Precious Name of the One God.(As I've said on my blo...g,Brits don't even have a quarter built tower and believe the gospel of Dawkins)
The BEST thing about the gospel is it WORKS. The American one doesn't, because it invites Jesus into your heart, then you spend the rest of your life as a schizophrenic, half you, half Jesus, trying to subvert Galations 2:20 into some kind of fiction. So what you end up with is follow Jesus, but leave me out of the picture because I'm a hopeless schizophrenic.See more
Saturday at 17:58 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Ofcourse you are correct about the gospel being about Christ and Him crucified Carol.Let's leave USA out of it and continue with Catholics. Catholics wholeheartedly agree with that sentence Carol,but you know what.....it doesn't do a thing ...for them.We both know the sentence is correct, so then we have to work out by listening to the Spirit, what unspoken shortcircuit is causing continued spiritual death in Catholics. All I'm doing here is a similar process, I'm flagging up what is it in an American's belief system that thinks it's OK to disassociate themselves from someone anyone can follow. And judging by the reaction today, I'd say the Holy Spirit is touching a major shortcircuit.See more
Saturday at 18:35 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch thru DS Lewis Axberg FOR THE CREATION WAITS IN EAGER EXPECTATION FOR THE CHILDREN OF THE LIVING GOD*JESUS CHRIST*TO BE REVEALED* God wants to mature a people and fill them with all the fullness of God.
Then the glory of the Lord will fill th...e whole body of the sons of God in the fullness thus far known only by our glorious Forerunner and Head. His glory shall flow and flow and fill the earth. Then shall be fulfilled the words of the Saviour, "The works that I do shall ye do also, and GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL YE DO."See more
Saturday at 19:06 · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Cliff Gableman I'd rather follow the car vs most so called believers
Saturday at 20:57 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I still don't understand what you are saying...are you saying we become Christ or God?
Saturday at 21:02 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch What's the alternative of eating Christ's flesh? Which bit's you and which bit's Him after the meal,huh?
Saturday at 21:04 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler You know...all he was talikg about was receiving salvation from the shedding of his blood, and feeding on his word. He was the word sent in the flesh. He explained it when he told them his words were Spirit and life. Whoever wants the truth will see it. Some didn't want it...just like today
Yesterday at 00:03 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler So what you are saying is we are literally Christ....or God. Isn't that what satan wanted....to be God. Christ lives in me and i am a child of God but i am not God. I heard a Universalist say if we only knew who we were we would bow down to each other. This way of thinking goes way back. I do not believe we become God or gods. We are his body...but this is not literal.
Yesterday at 01:00 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler About eating his flesh...you still don't get it. Jesus explained he was talking about his word, not his body.
Yesterday at 01:02 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - the Bible says "we are partakers of the divine nature". "We are children of God and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be we know that when he appears we shall be like him" - new birth is more wonderful than just an evangelica...l free ticket to heaven it is an internal transformation - you're born again spirit is identical to his spirit (romans 8 : 11). How the heck do you think the Holy Spirit could reside in us if the vessel wasn't compatible? Yes our soul is not transformed yet - we still sin & our bodies to but our brand new spirit man is exactly like Jesus & cannot sin, it is completely righteous. It is when we realise that we ARE HOLY & RIGHTEOUS not just legally but because now that is our very nature that a process of renewal can begin from the inside out!See more
Yesterday at 08:36 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I agree...what i wouldn't agree with, is that we become God. We are children of God, born of his Spirit...that doesn't make us God, himself. There is a difference. We are one with him, in that we have his Spirit...but we are not God, himsel...f. I do believe in the grace msg. I do believe, in my spirit i've been made Holy. If you believe you have become God, or that you have become a god, i would have to disagree with you on this. Some eastern religions believe they become god. Some, "Christians" believe that they are, "little gods". Being a child of God makes me a spirit being...not just flesh, but it still doesn't make me God.See more
Yesterday at 08:49 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble PS many believers are trying to be like Christ , trying to be good Etc not realising they ALREADY are like him and as John in his Epistle points out then if they are not then they are not born again!
Yesterday at 08:49 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler BTW...when i lived in Virginia Beach, i met people who belonged to a group called, "The Way". I hope you aren't of this same group. These people ended up on the news, because they were having bible studies and they had been drugging the dri...nks. I was invited, but i didn't go...they were just so off on their beliefs. It just sounds strange how The Way has been brought up, like it's better than the gospel of Jesus Christ. I hope i'm wrong and you all aren't part of this group.See more
Yesterday at 08:54 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble There is a sense that we are gods - in the day that you eat you will be as gods - so even Adam was created in the image of God. Jesus is THE son of God & we are sons. Obviously we are not God he is Father, Son & Holy Spirit & complete in himslef - but as I say even in the natural order man is a little lower than the angels but is obviously far above the animal creation.
Yesterday at 08:55 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I am not a little god, i am not a god, and i am not the God. I am not Christ.
Yesterday at 08:56 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - no we are not of "the way" that you are describing sounds freeky & I can understand your concern!
Yesterday at 08:56 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Paul...what you quoted, was a lie from the devil to Eve. In the day that you eat you will be as gods. This was the temptation...the lie, the deception...and she fell for it. This didn't mean we would be gods. Apparently, people are being deceived by the same lie, today, that was used on Adam and Eve.
Yesterday at 08:59 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler The same trap...the same temptation, the same devil, but in a different form...false religion. "you will be as gods" i am glad that you aren't of that group.
Yesterday at 09:01 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Got to go now - going to church where we don't do drugs! look at what Jesus said when he quoted the psalm about being as gods in Johns Gospel
Yesterday at 09:03 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler What he really said is...it is written that i said you are gods, but he didn't say it. Read the whole chapter, in context. NIght Paul...thanks for the talk.
Yesterday at 09:04 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch If we have left brain discussions there are certain subjects that are off limits.The leftbrain cannot handle them. This is why Proverbs 3:5-6 is so vital.
Yesterday at 09:50 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Just reading it now John 11 35 Has it not been written in your law I said you are gods ( quotation from Psalm 82 ). The devil not only deceives by blatant lying - he is also an angel of light and will give you half truths or cause excess ...that will hide a truth. What do you think being a "son of god" really means? The angels were called sons of God but now because of the incarnation, the death & resurrection of Jesus and ascension we actually bare the image of the heavenly 1 cor 15. Religion will always downgrade us to think we are nothing but the fact is I died on a cross 2000 yrs ago in Christ & the life I now live I live by faith in the Son of God!See more
Yesterday at 13:00 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The sting of any talk about "gods"- whether we are or not,actually comes from the fall.The left-brain is a useful tool for step by step procedures but it really cannot handle this kind of subject. Why? Because even if we are saved,the best you can say of our minds is that they are still in detox. We were drunk on our own "independence".Our minds alienated from the life of God.
Yesterday at 14:39 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch If you are a Christian you notice God doesn't answer a lot of our left-brain questions.You actually see this unroll in real time in the book of Job.And when God doesn't answer , we humans,who are all soaked already with the stench of the de...vils lie that God isn't good, add this as further proof that God doesn't love us. But God loves us so much,it's just that to even communicate with us He has to teach us a new language.We have to learn Spirit. Which for a people that are locked into the material world being the sum total of all existence...this is really foreign. He says "Enter into my courts with praise and thanksgiving" We look absolutely nonplussed.cont.....See more
Yesterday at 14:40 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch How is that relevant? But it turns out it is the quickest way of making us aware of the new language of Spirit.The experience of baptism in the Holy Spirit is part of our repentance,our turning around.Meta Noia means either beyond nous, mov...ing beyond the darkened confines of what we see,hear,touch,taste...to believing every Word that we hear God speak. Or meta means joining alongside the mind of God...but both meanings mean that our mind never stays the same.See more
Yesterday at 14:41 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch So , saturated with the devil's lie that we can be independent gods in our own right....even after becoming Christians, any talk of us being joined to God still passes through our Marvel Comic , or Greek god, idea of what this may mean. So,... really our leftbrain doesn't know where to start on the subject. So the quickest thing is that God gets us moving in the Spirit. Which is why Paul was firm in his instructions in how we run churches and meetings. Every denomination and virtually every new church completely ignores the Word of God on this, and runs churches with CEO pastors who pull all the strings. But inthe beginning it was not so. The truth of WHO WE ARE is in John 15 , we are branches in God's vine. But God's life is both vine trunk and branch. He has caught us up in Himself again at the Cross....it's just that Christians are still catching up.See more
Yesterday at 14:50 · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble I see what your driving at Chris - in fact natural human beings are all behaving like little gods, independent wills resisting the will of the almighty - selfishly only concerned with their own little worlds. Jesus came to serve others and lay down his life. He emptied himself.
Yesterday at 15:06 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch The other description by Jacob Boehme from 400 years ago is the Life of God has a Cross in it.Jesus was the Lamb slain before the world was created.To be caught up into God's Life is to be caught up into a life of "going to hell for others" or Hebrews 13:13. It's stamped right through His Life like letters in a stick of rock.
Yesterday at 15:11 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch When we're still young in God we spend our exertions like Peter with Jesus, and Agabus with St Paul, saying Jesus Life is prosperity and blessing, you don't need to go up to Jerusalem!!!! But 3rd levellers spend their life going up to Jerusalem! It's in their bloodstream.
Yesterday at 15:14 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Paul...John 11:25, notice he said it had been written in THEIR law. This was man's law, not God's law. Jesus was just using this to show if they believed man's law concerning men being gods, then why couldn't they believe he was God.
Yesterday at 16:06 · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Levelers, and the left brain? I think i will bow out of this conversation now...it is just too wierd. But i will be praying for you...that you will open your eyes to the truth. I think you are following some strange teachings. Get into the ...bible and ask God to give you understanding. If you follow man instead of God...you will never know the truth that can set you free. The bible says, "Do not let satan beguile you of the simplicity of Christ." It is a simple, straight forward gospel. Our brains cannot keep us from the truth...be it right side, or left side. I am concerned for you. I will be praying...See more
Yesterday at 16:16 · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch I could have said mind, if it was offputting...but from brain scans this seems to be so...it is just a celebration of how much recent science backs up the reality that the Bible's books always stated. We are NOT this little portion of mind ...that tries to get everything figured....nor is spirit confined to a brainbox either. Our lives are now hidden with Christ in God. Sorry this is all scaring you.That doesn't mean it isn't true.See more
23 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch As for levelers,even my close friends don't use that....the Bible in 1 John 2 uses the lingo children,young men,Fathers.All a 3rd leveller is ,is like all the authors that line all the Christian bookshops in all the world,a mature ministry ...in God. Unlike local ministries that we are acquainted with, people like Bonhoeffer,Madame Guyon,Watchman Nee,Mother Teresa,Richard Wurmbrand,Spurgeon,Wesley....have been chosen repeatedly throughout the Earth as having a mature voice in God.If what they say is not simple enough for you then rest assured they believe a simple gospel....but they have worked with this simplicity way beyond the American bumoper sticker, to where it is safe to follow the Way they travelled along in God.See more
23 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - sorry thats not what it says in - Psalm 82:6 "i said you are gods you are all sons of the most high" - where Jesus is quoting from! No he was saying that why did they find it so hard to believe that Jesus was THE incarnate son of God when even in the natural they were created in the image of God.
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I wasn't talking about the one in Psalms Paul...Chris, is, "The Way" an organization? And i still don't get the leveler thing.
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble The devil tempted the Eve by saying in the day you eat your eyes will be opened and you will be LIKE GOD. This was a lie because she was ALREADY like God. The devil hates it because he wanted to be like God. He can't create only destroy. Ma...n is created in the image and even though fallen and marred by sin you can see the beauty in what he creates. Jesus was tempted by satan at the core of his identity by the temptation IF you are the son of God. Jesus didn't need to prove anything!See more
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Yes but Carol that is what Jesus is quoting in John 11:25!!!
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler There is a difference in Jesus and us...he is God. We are not. We are thankful to be the children of God.
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble And the Way - have a look in the Acts the early disciples were called followers of the way. It was at Antioch that they were first called christians!
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler (KJV)John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Why did you bring up John 11:25?
21 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler Paul, let's go back to what Chris posted...why did he say don't follow me follow Christ, is crap, but The Way is the safe way and it is what the real gospel is about? This does not line up with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Following Christ is a good thing. Jesus said he was the way, how can you seperate?
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Yes I agree we are not God but we are LIKE God because we are his children & sons - just like our own children are in our image. Adam was like God because he was created in God's image but if we are born again it is even more so because we ...have taken on the image of the heavenly man we are not only in Christ but Christ is in us- the hope of glory! In Peter its says - we are partakers of the divine nature - new birth is in some way like the incarnation - we are born from above. We don't really understand the mystery of it but I'm being perdantic because its clearly what the scriptures teach and anything less lowers what God has done through Jesus!See more
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Carol - yes its got a bit far off the point! I know Chris personally so I can vouch for you he's not trying to lead you astray ( a bit difficult to understand) but thats what Peter said about the Apostle Paul! Of course there is nothing wro...ng with following Christ but I think he's taking issue with nice trite statements that are not the truth - really maybe its just a car bumper sticker! I can understand you getting a bit upset about the Way stuff as far as I know Chris isn't in any heretical sect called the Way but as I said before it is a term used by the early disciples so its not a bad term to use.See more
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Oops sorry I meant John 10:34!
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Carol Lucas Winkler I think it may be how he put it...it looks like the bumper sticker upset him. I just don't understand why. I don't think anything should be so deep that someone can't explain it in simple terminology. I think i asked a legitimate question. Paul, you told me about the disviples...but Chris hasn't explained, "The Way" yet. I don't like arguing...just wanted to know why The Way is safer, and what, exactly, it is. :)
20 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch One of the meanings of the bumper sticker (which in the context of driving,was always meant light heartedly...but 20 years later is wearing thin, especially in view of the Christianity that is exported from the USA on TV and here on Faceboo...k)is the disconnect between asking Jesus the way,and a Christian's responsibility to become the answer to the question. Commonly the States version of Christianity is ,ask Jesus into your heart,get your sins forgiven,join a church and try your best to live a good Christian life. The real gospel, and in fact the meaning behind the story of every single saint in BOTH Old and New Testaments is that we follow Jesus into His Way for us.See more
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble But 1161 this 5124 I confess 3670 unto thee 4671, that 3754 after 2596 the way 3598 which 3739 they call 3004 heresy 139, so 3779 worship I 3000 the God 2316 of my fathers 3971, believing 4100 all things 3956 which 3588 are written 1125 in 2596 the law 3551 and 2532 in 1722 the prophets 4396:
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch This Way is unique for all of us, but is tailormade to lead us to the Truth? What truth? That every mouth be stopped! That neither we nor any other human is capable of living the Christian life even once saved.This awful truth brings us to ...the kind of Truthfulness and desperation before God that this time we really mean business....at which point we learn it has to be Christ actually living our life as us. Not 2 peas in a pod, sharing the limelight.....but as Paul has shared,the reality of Chris and Paul crucified 2000 years ago, and now NOT I, but Christ actually living our lives.....yes through our souls,through our bodies....but Christ so fused with my spirit, that there is no join. "As He is, so ARE we in the world"See more
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch I meant to spell out that this is the deeper meaning to I am the Way the Truth and the Life.It is much more dynamic and 3dimensional than the States version, which only really gets people to salvation and pewsitting
19 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Load of references to the way in Acts more than I bargained for in fact!
17 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch It really was the word for Christianity. The other thing that's good is it implies movement and not doctrine.Other saints reduce it all to THE WAY that is Love. Everything else is self for self....some kind of agenda going on.
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Paul Noble Yes thats an interesting thought Chris that the way suggests movement. The christian walk is a journey of faith. I wonder why the early believers were first called christians at Antioch?
5 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch It was probably the gobsmacking shock that here were the world's first people who had somehow missed a stage....(They weren't Jews,hadn't had thousands of years of pre-conditioning culturally) and here they were ex-Pagan thieves,homosexuals,liars,rapists,beaming out Christ in everything they said and did. You must admit,if this was the first time in history....it would be gobsmacking!
4 hours ago · LikeUnlike.Chris Welch Oh...and not one of them had a donkeycart sticker with don't follow me, follow Christ...because their radiance and love showed they followed Christ, so others even created a nickname: Christian
Some time ago I imagined this light-hearted image: Pearl Schwarz and Andy Buzznik both prepared themselves for the evening report. One of the spinoffs from the Hadron Collider was that at a tremendous cost Time Travel was now possible. As nations clubbed together the billions needed for the rare excursion they could afford, it had fallen on the luck of Nightly CVS News Anchors Pearl and Andy to return to a significant date in history, record the event then return. There was only one date imaginable and unanimously chosen by poll: the day of Jesus Resurrection. So Pearl and Andy stood a few meters from the Garden Tomb. "Well this seems to be about it. Any moment Jesus is going to appear and according to the testimony of many bystanders over the following days be seen alive after 3 days in this tomb." "I know , Pearl....this so exciting." "Only we want to do it right." "That's right Pearl." "I mean Jesus c'mon! If this is all true we want a proper evaluation of the event. It was a really cool stunt you pulled off there, but your marketing of the event was lousy. So let's hope we can pull this off. Anything's better than the job Jesus did. Being able to return to this event helps us in our day, but we can bring our whole expertise to this day too." Someone shouted , "Cameras ready to roll....any time now..." Andy asked "Pearl. Was that your creative festooning around the mouth of the tomb there? The one with the letters "Welcome back Son of God" "Sure was Andy. Back in New York we'd have had more of a team of creatives, but I thought we could at least manage that." " It's early still, the stone appears rolled to one side, you reckon we've got enough extra lighting pointing at the tomb when the two Mary's go inside?" "We've got enough lighting to light a Broadway stage Andy...it'll be fine." "How about the music?" "We're getting a special orchestral number done by John Williams when we get back and we'll put it as a backing track. It's going to be a spectacular. A sellout smash in every TV station on Earth...can you imagine?" " That's great Pearl...let's just hope we can pull this off...it's just too expensive to ever be able to afford a second take..." " Anything will be an improvement on being mistaken for a gardner Andy. We know what we're doing....OK let's take our positions...." END AC Welch %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Has anyone ever wondered why such a key event as the resurrection, marked by prophecies hundreds of years before, was such a low key affair? Any atheist who spouts forth his usual dung about God needing to be praised because of a fragile ego...needs to be sat in a chair and forced to reflect on this whole event. If God was humanly constructed, a lot more of the resurrection day would have been around the supernature of this superman Jesus, heralded and acclaimed. There would be no question of being mistaken for a gardner. I mean there's low key.....and there's God. In the Spirit the whole Cross Weekend determines the legal right for all humans to reenter God's Presence, but as a natural event it played out "outside a city wall", in much the same tone that Jesus first arrived...in a stable at the back of a hotel with no vacancies. Completely off the radar of most in their daily lives.
Why would these things be so? Jesus was resurrected on the day that a wave offering of a sheaf of corn was waved before the Altar in the Temple. He was that first sheaf at Passover. But that was all it was. One sheaf.
The resurrection of Jesus, even followed by his ascension watched by a relatively small group of people, was low key. These events were not about Jesus. These events were for us. Jesus never sinned. Not one of these events was for His benefit. They were for ours. These events, so heralded...naturally enough...by every main denomination.... were not the goal. As the Jewish Feast calendar shows... Passover is just the entry point. The initial point de depart of the real thing Jesus was always after. Oh, you mean the coming of the Spirit at Acts 2? No, I don't mean the coming of the Spirit at Acts 2. That was Pentecost, the second Feast. No, I mean the Feast of Tabernacles was what the whole thing was ALWAYS ABOUT. God, tabernacling full-time among His people. Having a generation who knew how to live in Jesus in the same way that Jesus lived IN THE FATHER. Having a people that know how to ascend the hill of the Lord. Who know how to open the Gates that the King of Glory Come In.....THOSE Ancient doors.....locked since the beginning of man's days on the Earth....
and to show forth to Principalities and Powers the exceeding great glory now made manifest in the Church Here and Now On Earth. Because "I am He that changeth not" . God is and He is a rewarder of those that seek Him. He is an ....Is-er, He always was an Is-er....and that was why He got so annoyed with Martha.... What do you mean the last day Martha...I am the resurrection and the Life...let's do it now. Let's raise your brother Lazarus.
So this is why in 2008 Peter's message on Psalm 24 brought a whole new light. It turned the tables on Ern Baxter's message which was about Jesus, the firstborn among many brethren...... From now on Psalm 24 was going to be about US
2008 Peter Stott - Havant Glory Conference Message- transcribed here introduced the theme that we, the brethren of Jesus, are now opening those gates of Glory here on Earth. The prayer of Jesus was after all "Thy Kingdom Come". Ern's message before and after Kansas City was always that Jesus has ascended on high and the Father told Him to sit at the righthand of the Father and reign UNTIL all His enemies are made His footstool.....and he's not coming back UNTIL....
The Gates of hell shall NOT prevail against the Church. In a small way, we saw this in the Gates of Communism NOT prevailing against the prayers, particularly of the Polish saints in the 80s. The whole wall came down around them.
Perhaps this whole blog should rather be called Psalm 24 WATCH
Those following this blog will already have tucked inside them some key references Helen made here at the same 2008 Conference
Firstly," I felt that God showed me there was a correlation between this (praise) journey and our own spiritual being. And what I saw is that right in the middle there we have the spirit. Then here we have the soul, the will and emotions.And outside you have got the physical body. So the body is kind of like the first heaven where we dwell in our physical reality…The emotion or soulish area relates to the area of spiritual warfare. Then the spiritual area of me is where God dwells. But it is not an outside place. It’s an inside place."
and secondly "You know God’s way of doing spiritual warfare is radically different to the way we think spiritual warfare is done. I have been in so many meetings where there is lots of shouting…and I’m not saying there isn’t a place for that…but in those days that was all our understanding of spiritual warfare was. I want to read you what I believe is God’s definition of spiritual warfare...John 14:9 .."I am in the Father and the Father is in me.....(and following)
Then last Monday two things happened
I received more clarity on the importance of the mind in relation to Psalm 24,and simultaneously Daniel Yordy posted a post on Psalm 24.
I posted this on facebook with reference to Psalm 24
Jorge Pradas and Ed Miller taught us that every time the saints meet there is a key or keys, find the keys and its like Chronicles the glory of God comes down. Things have moved on 30 years,everyone's grown a bit, so the Key of David meetings(Havant) are consistently like this in increasing measure.A few weeks ago I understood this key in terms of Genesis 1 and Psalm 24.That in God we are speaking into different parts of the void each meeting and saying" Let there be Light and Let some more Kingdom Come.Let the King of Glory Come in"
Even before Acts 2, Jesus and the disciples invaded towns with the Presence of God declaring "Let the Kingdom of God come among you." Well for 40 years we've done meetings like this but now we are to do life like this.
Every day has a key. Christ's Life in us knows that key. Because we used to believe there were 3 existences,my life,a separate Christ life and the sin life we have wasted years, dissipating Christs life in us....so keys in the Romans 8 safe tumbler lock never fell, so here we are still with a world not too different from when the Spirit was outpoured. But the time of ignorance is passing.When we live believing we are Christ in our form,we don't have to go searching for demons....situations hunt us out.Often we're in incredible weakness.Not life how we'd choose...but if we don't take that way out...that self medicating way and( instead )see things through and watch what Christ is doing....we see doors open ...from nowhere. The tumblers in the lock have turned!
